Sly Cooper PS3 Models & 3DS Importer: Compatibility?

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Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time PS3 Model Import: A Discussion

Hey everyone! Let's dive into the possibility of getting the Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time PS3 models working with the 3DS Sonic Boom game importer. It seems like AdelQue has already started experimenting, and the initial results are interesting, but not quite there yet. This post aims to explore the challenges and potential solutions for achieving full compatibility.

The Initial Findings

AdelQue reports that the current importer, primarily designed for the 3DS Sonic Boom games, shows some promise when dealing with Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time PS3 models. Specifically, the importer can correctly extract the names and the complete skeleton structure of the models. That's a great first step! However, the crucial part – the meshes – are not being imported correctly. This is where the problems begin. When attempting to import with the skeleton, the importer throws an error message: "Unexpected magic bytes; expected MVTX chunk at 0xB4, actual value b'MEDG'." Without the skeleton, the error changes to: "unpack requires a buffer of 4/8/12 bytes depending on model."

These errors suggest that the file formats and data structures used in Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time differ significantly from those in the 3DS Sonic Boom games. The "magic bytes" error indicates that the importer is looking for a specific file signature (MVTX) that it doesn't find, instead encountering "MEDG." This likely means that the mesh data is stored in a different format or uses a different compression algorithm. The "unpack requires a buffer" error further reinforces this idea, suggesting that the importer is trying to read data in a way that's incompatible with the actual file structure.

Understanding the Challenges

To get these models imported correctly, we need to understand the differences between the file formats used in the two games. Here's a breakdown of the potential challenges:

  • Mesh Format: The most significant hurdle is the difference in mesh formats. Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time likely uses a proprietary mesh format that is not recognized by the 3DS Sonic Boom importer. This format could involve different ways of storing vertex data, face indices, UV coordinates, and other mesh attributes. It might also use a different compression scheme to optimize file size.
  • Data Structures: Even if the underlying mesh format were similar, the way the data is organized within the files could be different. The importer relies on specific data structures and offsets to locate and extract the mesh data. If these structures are different, the importer will fail to read the data correctly.
  • File Headers and Magic Numbers: The "magic bytes" error highlights the importance of file headers and magic numbers. These are specific sequences of bytes at the beginning of a file that identify the file type. The importer uses these magic numbers to determine how to parse the file. If the magic numbers are different, the importer will not be able to recognize the file and will throw an error.
  • Skeleton Structure: While the importer can extract the skeleton, there might still be subtle differences in the skeleton structure that could cause issues down the line. For example, the bone orientations or the way the bone hierarchy is defined could be different.

Potential Solutions

Given these challenges, here are some potential solutions we could explore:

  1. Reverse Engineering the File Format: The most comprehensive solution is to reverse engineer the file format used in Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time. This involves analyzing the game files to understand how the mesh data is stored, what data structures are used, and how the file is organized. Tools like hex editors and disassemblers can be used to examine the files and identify patterns. Once the file format is understood, a new importer can be written to specifically handle these files.
  2. Modifying the Existing Importer: An alternative approach is to modify the existing 3DS Sonic Boom importer to support the Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time file format. This would involve adding new code to recognize the "MEDG" magic number, parse the mesh data, and handle any differences in data structures. This approach is less time-consuming than writing a new importer from scratch, but it requires a good understanding of the existing importer's codebase.
  3. Using a Generic Mesh Importer: Some generic mesh importers, such as those found in Blender or other 3D modeling software, might be able to import the Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time models with some tweaking. This would involve exporting the models from the game files in a more generic format, such as OBJ or FBX, and then importing them into the 3D modeling software. This approach might require some manual cleanup and adjustment of the models.
  4. Leveraging Existing BMS Scripts: AdelQue mentioned having a BMS script specifically for Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time. BMS scripts are used with tools like QuickBMS to extract data from game files. This script could potentially be used to extract the mesh data in a more usable format, which could then be imported into a 3D modeling software.

The Role of Community Collaboration

This is where community collaboration becomes crucial. Sharing information, tools, and resources can significantly accelerate the process of getting these models imported correctly. Here are some ways we can collaborate:

  • Sharing Game Files: Sharing sample game files, such as the "san.cooked" file mentioned by AdelQue, allows others to examine the file format and experiment with different import techniques.
  • Sharing BMS Scripts: Sharing BMS scripts can help others extract data from the game files and potentially convert it into a more usable format.
  • Sharing Code and Tools: If anyone has written code or tools that can help with the import process, sharing them with the community can save others a lot of time and effort.
  • Sharing Knowledge and Expertise: Sharing knowledge and expertise about file formats, reverse engineering, and 3D modeling can help others learn and contribute to the project.

Next Steps

Based on the initial findings and the potential solutions discussed, here are some next steps we can take:

  1. Analyze the "san.cooked" File: AdelQue should share the "san.cooked" file and the BMS script with the community. This will allow others to examine the file format and see if they can identify any patterns or structures that can help with the import process.
  2. Experiment with QuickBMS: Others can use QuickBMS and the provided BMS script to extract data from the "san.cooked" file and see if they can get the mesh data in a more usable format.
  3. Reverse Engineer the Mesh Format: Those with experience in reverse engineering can try to analyze the mesh format and identify the data structures used to store the vertex data, face indices, and other mesh attributes.
  4. Modify the Existing Importer: If someone is familiar with the codebase of the 3DS Sonic Boom importer, they can try to modify it to support the Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time file format.

By working together and sharing our knowledge and resources, we can increase the chances of successfully importing the Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time PS3 models and make them available for modding, animation, and other creative projects. Let's get to work, guys!

Providing the Requested Files

AdelQue mentioned being able to provide a "san.cooked" file and another BMS file specifically for this game. This would be incredibly helpful for anyone looking to investigate further. Sharing these files would allow others to delve into the game's data structure and potentially unlock the key to importing the models correctly. The "san.cooked" file likely contains the model data in a cooked (processed) format, ready for the game to use. The BMS script, on the other hand, is a script used with QuickBMS to extract data from game archives. Having both of these resources is a significant advantage in figuring out how to properly import the Sly Cooper models.

The Importance of Collaboration

The challenge of importing game models is rarely a solo endeavor. It often requires a community effort, with individuals contributing their unique skills and knowledge. Some might be adept at reverse engineering file formats, while others might have expertise in 3D modeling or programming. By combining these diverse talents, the community can overcome complex technical hurdles and achieve results that would be impossible for a single person to accomplish. Sharing findings, tools, and scripts is essential for fostering this collaborative environment.

Diving Deeper into the Error Messages

The error messages encountered by AdelQue provide valuable clues about the nature of the problem. The "Unexpected magic bytes" error suggests that the importer is looking for a specific file signature that is not present in the Sly Cooper files. Magic bytes are typically used to identify the file type and ensure that the importer is handling the correct data. The fact that the importer expects "MVTX" but finds "MEDG" indicates a fundamental difference in the file format. The "unpack requires a buffer" error, on the other hand, suggests that the importer is attempting to read data in a way that is incompatible with the file structure. This could be due to differences in data types, compression algorithms, or the overall organization of the data within the file. By carefully analyzing these error messages, developers can gain a better understanding of the challenges and develop targeted solutions.

Long-Term Goals and Potential Benefits

Successfully importing the Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time models would open up a world of possibilities for modders, animators, and game enthusiasts. Imagine being able to create custom animations with Sly Cooper, use the models in fan-made games, or even modify the existing game with new content. The long-term goals of this project extend beyond simply importing the models. It's about unlocking the creative potential of the community and giving them the tools they need to express their passion for the Sly Cooper series. The benefits of this endeavor are far-reaching and could lead to a vibrant and thriving community of Sly Cooper fans.

Concluding Remarks

The journey to import the Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time models into the 3DS Sonic Boom game importer is undoubtedly challenging, but it's also a rewarding one. With the combined efforts of the community, the sharing of resources, and a deep dive into the game's file formats, the goal is attainable. The potential benefits of this project are immense, ranging from unlocking creative opportunities for fans to fostering a stronger sense of community. So, let's roll up our sleeves, dive into the code, and make this happen!